Canadian Airborne Regt. Cdo's

[Basketball Jones]

Hey everyone,

I've always been a bit fascinated with things like OrBats, Regt./ Bat. structure, etc. I find it interesting how unit organizations have changed over the years, or how battlegroups have been formed from multiple units based on their assigned tasks.

One thing I can't seen to find anywhere is more information on the Canadian Airborne Regiment's structure, specifically with regard to the size of its "commandos". When the 90's rolled around, the unit was approx. 750 members total. The commandos were approx. company-sized around the time of the regiment's disbandment. However, I've read about a unit in Germany in the 70's, "3rd mechanized commando", which was battalion-sized. Reading about the early days of Cyprus, I've also seen mention of a "1 Cdo BG", which implies a battalion-size component unit.

My questions are: Was the CAR at any point in its history a multi-battalion regiment? Were the commandos ever their distinct own battalions, eventually made into companies/ company-size formations near the end of the regiment's life? Or was the strong distinction between each commando due to the fact that the regular force infantry regiments each "fed" into a specific commando?

Thanks

 

[KevinB]

You partially answered your own question above.
Originally there were only two CDO’s in tbr CAR. Fed from all three Regiments, they each had a LCol as OC, which then allowed for 3 Mech Cdo to be formed in Germany, but was never part of the CAR as a unit.

It was never viewed as a Multi Bn Regiment, but the early CDO’s where significant larger than the late 80’s and 90’s

1 CDO was in Cyprus in 1973/74 but was reinforced by the rest of the Regiment after the Turkish invasion.

When formed in 1968, some of the VanDoo components were left in Quebec, as Edmonton was seen as an issue for QOL for them. Eventually that changed and all were in Edmonton.

The move to Petawawa in 1977, then led to the division of the CDO’s by Regiment in 1979 when 3CDO was formed (or reformed-ish, as 3 Mech CDO wasn’t viewed as part of the CAR when it existed in Germany), and by 1992 the CDO’s lost their LCol’s and became effective a Coy sized entity with a Maj as OC.

 

[ueo]

You partially answered your own question above.
Originally there were only two CDO’s in tbr CAR. Fed from all three Regiments, they each had a LCol as OC, which then allowed for 3 Mech Cdo to be formed in Germany, but was never part of the CAR as a unit.

It was never viewed as a Multi Bn Regiment, but the early CDO’s where significant larger than the late 80’s and 90’s

1 CDO was in Cyprus in 1973/74 but was reinforced by the rest of the Regiment after the Turkish invasion.

When formed in 1968, some of the VanDoo components were left in Quebec, as Edmonton was seen as an issue for QOL for them. Eventually that changed and all were in Edmonton.

The move to Petawawa in 1977, then led to the division of the CDO’s by Regiment in 1979 when 3CDO was formed (or reformed-ish, as 3 Mech CDO wasn’t viewed as part of the CAR when it existed in Germany), and by 1992 the CDO’s lost their LCol’s and became effective a Coy sized entity with a Maj as OC.

John Jolley accepted Regtl color in 73 I beleive and I carried it til my posting in 75. Not part of the CAR dont think so,or at least for a while.

 

[Ostrozac]

There were 3 real organizational eras for the Canadian Airborne Regiment, as I seem to recall. I’m separated from most of my books and source material, but this is what I can piece together from memory.

On standup in 1968, there were 1 and 2 Commandos that were indeed each treated as mini-battalions, and each was subdivided into rifle companies. The 3rd Mechanized Commando in Germany (1970 to 1977) had three rifle companies, although these were M113 companies and were not on jump status.

In 1977 the Canadian Airborne Regiment moved to Petawawa, and the Baden-Soellingen battalion task became rotaional between 3RCR and 2PPCLI. In Petawawa the Commandos were organized as companies, although the Commander of each Commando was a Commanding Officer and the Commander of the Regiment was a Formation Commander (and a Colonel, I believe). This was the point, with three commandos in Petawawa, that they acquired strict regimental affiliation to the R22eR, PPCLI and RCR. When 2 Cdo was in Edmonton and 3 Cdo in Germany they were both regimentally mixed.

In approximately 1992, the Regimental Commander was made a CO, and the Commando Commanders were made OCs.

 

[MacNav63]

There were 3 real organizational eras for the Canadian Airborne Regiment, as I seem to recall. I’m separated from most of my books and source material, but this is what I can piece together from memory.

On standup in 1968, there were 1 and 2 Commandos that were indeed each treated as mini-battalions, and each was subdivided into rifle companies. The 3rd Mechanized Commando in Germany (1970 to 1977) had three rifle companies, although these were M113 companies and were not on jump status.

In 1977 the Canadian Airborne Regiment moved to Petawawa, and the Baden-Soellingen battalion task became rotaional between 3RCR and 2PPCLI. In Petawawa the Commandos were organized as companies, although the Commander of each Commando was a Commanding Officer and the Commander of the Regiment was a Formation Commander (and a Colonel, I believe). This was the point, with three commandos in Petawawa, that they acquired strict regimental affiliation to the R22eR, PPCLI and RCR. When 2 Cdo was in Edmonton and 3 Cdo in Germany they were both regimentally mixed.

In approximately 1992, the Regimental Commander was made a CO, and the Commando Commanders were made OCs.

Lived in Lahr during the 3 Mech Commando era and while they were clearly a mechanized infantry battalion, they did where the maroon beret and CAR cap badge. Back in Ottawa in '83 and saw the RCR parade for their centennial and pretty sure 3 Commando was on parade as part of the regiment.

 

[FJAG]

On standup in 1968, there were 1 and 2 Commandos that were indeed each treated as mini-battalions, and each was subdivided into rifle companies. The 3rd Mechanized Commando in Germany (1970 to 1977) had three rifle companies, although these were M113 companies and were not on jump status.

I'll add a little to this as far as I an recall.

The post unification era saw several changes including each infantry regiment having to give up personnel to form the Airborne regiment - several other units, like the Fort Gerry Horse in Germany were disbanded and replaced. Gunners lost 1 Surface to Surface Missile Battery at that time and 4 RCHA amongst others. I turned RegF in 1969 and 1970 was a year of massive downsizing across the board.

At that time there had been three mechanized infantry battalions in Germany in addition to the armoured and artillery regiment. In 1970 these were reduced to two battalions. The whole brigade was downsized and - like we in Canada - ceased being brigade groups. In Canada we became "combat groups" while in Germany it became 4 Canadian Mechanized Battle Group" which to us described something smaller than a brigade group. It was a short term thing and went back to "brigade group" in 1973 but stayed with just two battalions.

In 1970, 1 R22eR stayed in Germany but the PPCLI and RCR battalions were repatriated. The intent was to have both English battalions keep a presence in Europe in order to keep that skill level alive within them and some genius came up with the idea that since the airborne regiment was already a mixed bag of personnel, lets call the "English" battalion in 4 CMBG 3 Mech Commando and man it with both RCR and PPCLI soldiers who would serve several years there and then rotate back to Canada. (remember that back before all the unification stuff we actually rotated whole battalions and regiments through Germany rather than just the people.)

3 Mech Commando (or 3 Mechadoo as it was called by other) continued to be manned by both RCR and PPCLI personnel until 1976/77 when the SSF was formed in Petawawa and the title moved to Canada as just 3 Commando of the Airborne Regiment (and basically became the company-sized "RCR" manned commando). The former personnel of 3 Mech Cdo who were in Germany simply rebadged as 3 RCR.

 

[Blackadder1916]

In 1970, 1 R22eR stayed in Germany but the PPCLI and RCR battalions were repatriated. The intent was to have both English battalions keep a presence in Europe in order to keep that skill level alive within them and some genius came up with the idea that since the airborne regiment was already a mixed bag of personnel, lets call the "English" battalion in 4 CMBG 3 Mech Commando and man it with both RCR and PPCLI soldiers who would serve several years there and then rotate back to Canada. (remember that back before all the unification stuff we actually rotated whole battalions and regiments through Germany rather than just the people.)

3 Mech Commando (or 3 Mechadoo as it was called by other) continued to be manned by both RCR and PPCLI personnel until 1976/77 when the SSF was formed in Petawawa and the title moved to Canada as just 3 Commando of the Airborne Regiment (and basically became the company-sized "RCR" manned commando). The former personnel of 3 Mech Cdo who were in Germany simply rebadged as 3 RCR.

Sean Maloney's "War Without Battles" briefly touches on the origin of 3 Mech Cdo's title.

 

[FJAG]

That's great. I never knew that there was a requirement for two airborne battalions although within the regiment originally, the commandos were larger than companies but shy of battalion strength.

I think Maloney was right on the facts but not on his opinion that it was not a "bastard child". I can't think of anything worse than having 700 predominantly non paratroopers in APC's without an airborne role wearing maroon berets and an Airborne cap badge.

The cuts at that time were truly monumental. The guns lost around 2,000 all ranks out of slightly more than 4,000. In the winter of 1970/71 I left on an NBCW offrs course for Borden as a GPO in H Bty 3 RCHA - we had close to 1,000 troops in three overstrength batteries (because of cuts elsewhere - not long before that regiments had four batteries)

Many of the personnel were slated for remuster to other trades. When I came back from course the battery and several hundred people were gone - simply gone. I was put into J Bty as a GPO and we were understrength. I had no troop leader, my tech sergeant had to double as troop sergeant major and my three guns had five guys each instead of seven and were run by newly minted master bombardiers instead of sergeants. There were no promotions in the senior NCO ranks for close to three years afterwards.

 

[Basketball Jones]

Hey everyone, thanks for the replies. Definitely answered my questions. Learned a lot more from this post than I could've hoped; I appreciate the first-hand knowledge of those who were around for that era.
Blackadder1916, I've never seen that book before, but that one page has a lot of what I'm searching for.